Introduction

I have been around to a friend recently who just bought the latest and greatest Avantage Receiver from Yamaha and AU$5000 worth of speakers but didn’t bother to read the manual in how to set up the receiver correctly.

Good sound is dependent just as much on doing the setup correctly, than it is on buying great gear. I was shocked and horrified to learn that after spending almost AU$10K on his setup, he didn’t bother to go through the expert setup procedure, he simply placed the mic on the couch (a big no no), measured one microphone position and off he went. Then he complained to me that the system sounded like $h1t, pardon my French! Of course it did…

However, after fixing his setup, I realised many people do the same, so it’s time for showing you how to do Yamaha YPAO – and actually most other home cinema receiver – setup correctly. Some of the advice below can be applied generally to all receivers. I will highlight Yamaha YPAO only advice here.

General Setup

Before anything else, you should go into the Manual Setup section under Speaker Setup and set the amp assignment correctly, dependent on which speaker terminals you used for which speakers and whether you used external amplification. You will need to refer to your receiver’s user manual as it does differ dependent on the the make and model of your receiver, even if we only look at Yamaha Receivers.

Microphone Placement

Firstly, auto setup should be configured as follows:

  • Multi-position: this is true even if you are only using one chair in one position to listen to the system. Although manufacturers include a single placement setup procedure, it is nearly impossible to get great sound using only one sample. They will either over-correct or under-correct for variations in frequency response. ALWAYS select multi-position measurement.
  • Angle Measurement (YPAO only): this will ensure that CinemaDSP will be configured correctly and if you have an ATMOS or DTS X enabled receiver, the height information will be used to ensure sounds are steered correctly to the different speakers. I would recommend to always select this option as well.

Ok, now with regards to Microphone placement:

  • DO NOT place the microphone on a hard surface like a table or even your couch (either on the seat or head rest) by itself. This will allow it to absorb reflections from the couch or hard surface in a way that is not natural. Unless you plan on listening to your system by putting your ear where your @$$ is or by placing your head on the coffee table and resting your foot on the couch (sounds rather uncomfortable if you ask me!), do not do this.
  • DO place the microphone on a tripod. The microphone has a grove that goes into your standard camera tripod. If you don’t have one of those, elevate the microphone by taping it to an upside down glass (the kind you drink out of). I usually use a plastic cup that has a slim bottom so it doesn’t act as a hard surface for reflections. Make sure you only tape the bottom of the mic. When I do this, I elevate the glass or cup using soft pillows to ear height, and not some other hard surface like a box or – as my friend did – a metal hollow side table.
  • DO make sure that the microphone has a “line of sight” view of all the speakers in the room if possible – at all microphone positions. The only exception to this is the subwoofer which does not need to have a line of sight view from the mic. I sometimes make some exceptions to this when it is totally unavoidable. For example, I have the back surrounds on a bookshelf which the back seats don’t have a line of sight view of. When I switch to the calibration which includes all seating positions in my home cinema, there were some mic positions at the back that did not have a line of sight view. However, all the front seats did. Not a huge deal but I don’t listen with that calibration when we only sit in the front row as it’s not ideal.

Have a look at the diagram below which you can find variations of in Yamaha documentation. The below is the correct version with number 1 position being in the centre of the couch (or chair). Some versions of this diagram were incorrectly putting number 1 on the side of the couch.

i361_070815

However, this is where it ends for me. I usually do the following, which seems to work with YPAO and other receivers as well:

  • Position 1: in the centre of the couch with microphone at ear height, away from the  headrest of the couch. Basically, this is right in the centre of where your bum will be but at ear height. The reason this needs to be in the centre is that the delay / distance measurements are taken from the first position. If you were to place this first measurement off centre, some seats would get better distance measurements while others a lot worse. We want to even this out and have every seat experience the most ideal sound the room allows.
  • Position 2: Same position as number 1 but to the seat to the right of the centre seat. On a 3-seater couch, this will be the right-most seat.
  • Position 3: same as position 1 and 2 but to the left. In case you’re wondering, it doesn’t matter if you go left or right.
  • Positions 4-6: Now I repeat the same measurements I did in Positions 1 to 3 but with the microphone placed much closer to the headrest where your ears would be, but at just enough height that it clears the back of the couch by a cm but also that it is getting some of the reflections off the back of the couch. Why? Because this is the position your ears will be AND there will be reflections that will muffle the sound that originate from the headrest of the couch.
  • Positions 7 and 8: I normally do these positions just between positions 1-2 and 1-3 (just a little off-centre) but in the same elevation and distance from the back of the couch as positions 1 – 3. This is to ensure we give the receiver enough variation for the room acoustics and don’t overwhelm it with having to compensate for that particular couch.

If you were configuring one seating position, a chair or arm chair, do the above exactly but divide up the chair equally or do some positions to the left and right of the chair at ear height as well as just a bit in front and above ear height.

If you have multiple couches, I recommend, doing more positions on the couch that will be your primary listening position and doing the rest on the other couch(es) following the above principles.

Angle Measurement (YPAO only)

YPAO in higher end Yamaha receivers will allow you to do something called an angle measurement. You will have to do this in Position 1 above, but use the little boomerang that came with your receiver like the one below.

YPAO mic

The positions are marked. Position 1 on the boomerang must face towards your front speakers, while 2 and 3 towards the back. The boomerang can be fixed onto a tripod as well. I really recommend this. Otherwise the taping method works here as well.

Measure each position by following the on-screen guidance. Please note that the height position is only available on Atmos and DTS X receivers.

Manual Configuration

Cabling and Crossover

Once YPAO (or other Receiver config) has finished, check the following:

  1. Speaker cabling is normal in all positions.
  2. Check what the crossover frequency was set to on your speakers.

Even though your speakers may be able to do frequencies below 80hz, it is not recommended to go below this cross over for movies as those frequencies are hard to control even from the subwoofer alone. However, your milage may vary. If you don’t have a separate subwoofer EQ, but only using the Yamaha, you may want to leave crossovers below 80Hz or leave speakers as “large” so no crossover is applied to them. As a rule of thumb, if Yamaha configured your speakers with a high crossover, you should not lower it (e.g. from 100Hz to 80hz), you can however up the crossover frequency (e.g. from 60hz to 80hz).

The reason you should not lower crossover frequencies is because the setup routine determined that anything lower than the crossover frequency doesn’t reach the seating positions without major dips (-3dB which is 1/2 of the percieved volume) in frequency response. If you lower the crossover, you may still get an uneven response or may not hear certain frequencies at all as now the subwoofer is not playing them back either.

If the crossover set is much higher than you know the speakers can reproduce, you may want to repeat the setup routine paying attention to mic placement. If they still come up short, think about aiming the speakers with the woofers pointing at the main listening positions.

Equalisation Curve

The equaliser on Yamaha receivers can be set to the following:

  • FLAT: this is the default. You should set this if you listen to a lot of TV, not just movies or you listen below reference level (around -17 volume on Yamaha receivers, 0 volume on THX and Audyssey enabled receivers) and your room has lots of soft furnishings.
  • NATURAL: this is the old CinemaEQ curve. It tames the high end to make sure that movie soundtracks don’t sound too bright if you have a normal living room with lots of hard surfaces like floors and walls without carpet or other soft coverings. Also use this if you are listening to movies LOUD as otherwise even without hard surfaces, just being much closer to the speakers than in the cinema will elevate the high frequencies beyond what was intended. Please note that some DVDs and Blu Rays had EQ applied during mastering to lower the high frequencies for playback in the home. If a movie sounds too muffled with this, you have two options: up the treble 2dB which may work or switch to the flat curve.
  • FRONT: this leaves your front left and right speakers alone and will timbre match all the other speakers to them. Unless you like how your front speakers sound because they are some ultra-expensive supersonic beasts, do not set this. Leave this alone. This is there to please a special few who spent $50K+ on their front two speakers.
  • THROUGH: no EQ is applied. Why would you do this unless you sit inside an anaphoric chamber? Seriously! Don’t!

Other settings

  1. Adaptive DSP should be switched on. It variates the DSP strength based on volume.
  2. Adaptive DRC (Dynamic Range Control) should be switched on if you’re listening at lower volume levels (below -25). Anything above -25 I would recommend switching it off as it can introduce a harshness to certain sounds on any receiver without YPAO Volume.
  3. YPAO Volume should be switched on. I am going to do a review of it in June 2017, at which point I’ll make further recommendations and check if it needs to be switched off for reference listening (anything above -25 really).

Surround and Surround Back Speakers Volume Levels

The only major issue I see with Yamaha receivers – or most receivers that don’t have Audyssey – is that they don’t variate surround speaker volume levels dependent on volume. When listening to surround programs at lower volume levels, the surround and surround back speaker volumes might need to be increased in certain setups to maintain the same surround envelopment. I have heard different views on this but it seems to me like those that have their surround speakers at ear height seem to have less trouble with this than those who have them somewhat higher than ear height or further away than the front speakers.

I believe both Audyssey and Dolby researched this and found it to be true, however. I find the same when listening in my home cinema where the surround speakers are somewhat higher than my front speakers while my presence speakers are on a third plane altogether near the ceilings. I normally increase surround and surround back channels by 1-2 dB dependent on how loud someone is listening to the system in general. You could even design a reference setting and a low volume setting turning this and other features on and off. On Yamaha you can do this using something called “Scenes”.

Give me feedback in the comments below and let me know how you go! Happy Listening!

78 Comments »

  1. Good thing your mate has you by their side, otherwise that’s a crime against the laws of sound!

    I hope they also got some kind of AntiMode, I think that should come bundled with any decent sub, it’s THAT essential!

    Good write up of YPAO though. In my experience I found the Single Point measurement, along with Angle adjustment, does a superb job, with sound steering and imaging. I’ve done Multipoint measurements {x4 positions: MLP, 1ft to the front and 1ft left & right of MLP} in the past and didn’t notice a massive difference, aside from it taking an extra 1-2db extra from the sub {per “seat”}, due to covering a larger area

    Could be down to my listening area {3 seater in a 10 x 10ft room}, with only me watching, not being a big enough space to make it worth doing.

    I’ll have to try the full 8 and get back to you.

    By the way, here’s my setup:

    Yamaha RXA3040 AVR
    Yamaha MXA5000 power amp

    B&W CM10 S2 Fronts {bi-amped}
    B&W Centre 2 S2 {bi-amped}
    B&W 685 S2 Surrounds.

    SVS PC2000 x 2 {though currently only using the 1, as a 2nd doesn’t seem to add much for dual mono}, aside from being a bit smoother, I didn’t seem to have many nulls to fill.

    As far as XO goes, YPAO sets them to 40hz by default, so I’ve found 60hz works best for the Fronts {any higher and I’d have to reverse sub phase}… and, well 60 all round really.

    Something that did confuse me ’til I gave it thought was that it cut the bass from the Fronts at around 50hz by 10db {tested with test tones and SPL meter}. At first I thought YPAO was robbing me of it, then realised it was probably a massive peak it was simply flattening!

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    • Yes I recommended a used SVS As-EQ1 like mine but he hasn’t done it yet. It’s a shame spending so much on a system and have a muffled sub. I said to him at least he needed to move it from next to the glass doors (!!!) but I did as much as I could to make the system sound better which it did, including the sub but you are right the sub was still not great.

      Your setup is very good. I think 60hz is fine for crossover as long as there are no nulls. It sounds like you set things up great.

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  2. I would recommend you put the “right” mic positioning diagram (your approach) instead of the “wrong” one. Info should match, and visuals are better than text. I think you custom diagram will help better to achive the article goal. Thanks for all info shared, specially since for the Yammy community isnt much out there.

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    • No worries, Javier. That’s a great suggestion. I will make a custom one. Or even a better idea! Are you good with graphics software? If you put one together, I can put it on the site and credit you with it. I’d love the community to contribute to the site. 🙂 let me know, otherwise I’ll put something together.

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  3. Hi, thanks for this excellent guide – I am not experienced in this area so those informations are priceless for me. Currenlty I have yamaha rx-v773 and 5.1 set based on Dali Zensor 7, Zensor 1 and E-12 sub.
    Honestly I have never used YPAO before – probably it is a mistake:)

    There is a lot of people on a/v forums claiming that solutions like YPAO or even using DSP are doing more wrong than good for sound experience – well i just don’t know – currently i run only Sci-Fi DSP, manually set speaker distance and thats it. My ear is not very trained so while I tried to compare some DSP while watching movie it just sound…different:)

    I presume that your recommendation is to definately use ypao and DSP for movies, isn’t it?

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    • Well, listen Blazej. I think set it up both ways and see what your ears prefer. After all no matter how much one camp is saying use it, while the others say don’t, I think it depends whether you like the result or not.

      My opinion is that those who don’t use EQ don’t know much about how to set them up to begin with. Yes, it takes time and care to not hurt the sound quality and I think when no such care is exercised you are better off turning it off for sure! Follow my advice and see if you like the result. If not, turn it off and don’t agonise over it.

      I hope that helps.

      Ps. I love the Sci Fi program on the Yamaha also. 🙂

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  4. Question about the levels: if the setup boosts certain frequencies even up to 5.5 db, should I reduce the overall gain of that channel by the same amount to prevent digital distortion?

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    • In addition, do you prefer to listen in straight, surround processing, or pure direct? I feel like pure direct has the best sound imo (depth, response, naturalness) except when it’s stereo content and I can’t use my center channel for dialog.

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      • Hi Edward,

        Actually, if you’re using an external amp for those channels, increase the volume on the external amp and re-run the setup.

        If you are running the internal amps, leave it as is. It’s really rare that digital distortion would occur with modern receivers. The only time I have heard digital distortion with a Yamaha was when using Dynamic DRC and only then with two movies out of hundreds and only on certain scenes.

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      • Hi Edward,

        Have a look at my article on CinemaDSP. But in essence, I don’t like pure direct because it doesn’t engage the EQ. If EQ is set up properly, it should clean up the muddiness in the sound. Unless of course you have an acoustically excellent room with little room interaction. In that case, pure direct may be better. Cheers!

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      • Hmm I’ve read somewhere that the room EQ is still in effect for pure mode, just not any DSP…

        I have my left and right channels (large towers) externally amped and center channel receiver amped on my yamaha tsr-7790bl. I find the room EQ adds at least 4.5db of gain on the center and none on my towers. I think it’s being overshadowed. The center’s PEQ also has points with an additional 5db of gain.

        I tried lowering the overall channel gains by the highest PEQ gain amount, volume matched my L + R amp gain, and use volume control to increase volume. This actually sounded less harsh than the original setup. Do you think the op amp in the receiver is being over driven in the original setup?

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      • Yes that is correct re overdriving the amp / introducing digital distortion due to the 10db overall gain. This is why it’s critical to level match first when using external amplification.

        Pure direct should disengage the EQ (all digital circuitry actually – including video output on some models). Straight mode leaves EQ on but disengages any other DSP. However, for surround processing, straight mode will still allow you to do pro logic, Dolby, DTS matrix decoding.

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  5. What are your thoughts about YPAO setting the front left and right speakers to large but leaving everything else small? My speakers (XTZ M6) are stand-mounted and not floor-standing. The consensus on the web is to always leave speakers as small, typically with an 80 Khz cut-off. I reset mine to small after YPAO runs, but why would it set them to large? Would you recommend leaving them this way based on what YPAO does? Thanks.

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    • Hi Martin, THX recommends an 80Hz crossover because any frequency below 80Hz is best played back by one or a group of subwoofers where the interactions with the room can be controlled easier than if those frequencies were emitted by the main speakers.
      However, if you don’t have a great subwoofer EQ, you may get better results by leaving the main speakers as large. I would try both and see which sounds better in your setup.

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  6. Great article!! I am so thankful for this because I’ve found there’s a lot of info on Audyssey, but very little about YPAO.

    I run the Yamaha A3050 in a 5.2.2 setup with Def Tech’s & no external amplification. When I run YPAO it sets my front towers & center to large XO at 40 KHz. I’ve switched them all back to small & set them back to 80 KHz. Does this have anything to do with the fact that all are powered with subs built in? What is your recommendation?

    Thanks again!!

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    • Hi Russ, I’m happy people find it useful. 🙂 Yes, def if they have built in subs, YPAO will set the XO to the limit of the speakers (where they start rolling off -3dB actually). THX recommends setting everything to 80Hz for the simple reason that controlling issues below 80Hz is hard enough as it is using (a group of) subs let alone if they are coming from all speakers. I agree but only if you can position and EQ your sub(s) well. Otherwise, try both and see which sounds better. That’s my usual recommendation.

      For my setup, I use Audyssey for the sub (SVS AS-EQ1) and YPAO for the main speakers. This gives me the best of both worlds. In such a setup, 80Hz crossover makes perfect sense, as Audyssey does a much better job below 80Hz than YPAO and YPAO does a much better job above 80Hz than Audyssey. 🙂

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  7. Great article! I followed multi-point placement as recommended and my fronts, center, subs all sound great. The problem is my side surrounds are really low. I’ve got the levels on Surround L and Surround R at +10 dB each. They sound great when playing music (9 channel stereo) but for a movie on blu-ray or directv (both a good dolby source) the surround audio is just too low. YPAO measured the distance around 10.5 feet (they’re also 9 feet off the ground). My other AVR, sr6011 running audyssey, sounds great and has no problem with the surround audio. Is there anyway for YPAO to up that surround audio level or is this just an inherent problem with the Yamaha and YPAO

    My setup
    Yamaha a2070
    Klipsch RP-260f
    Klipsch 450c
    pb-1000, klipsch r-10sw
    def tech 600’s

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    • Hi Travis,
      That is rather strange.

      First thing is check your source equipment that you didn’t set it to stereo output by mistake. I’ve done that to my blu Ray player when connecting it to a TV then forgot to set it back!

      Then could you please check you have them connected to the correct terminals (you didn’t swap side and back surrounds by mistake)? If they are connected to the correct terminals, check the phase (red to red, black to black). If it’s all good, time to reset the receiver.

      If that doesn’t fix it, it may be worth trying switching the receiver to 4ohm in advanced settings.

      If still not ok, try lowering all other speaker levels to keep them relatively high.

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  8. I have a rxa 860. After doing only one measurement position, ypao set my eq to flat. I didn’t have much bass on this setting at all but when I set it to through the bass was alot more powerful. I don’t have a subwoofer, just a 5 speaker system. All Polk. Tsx 550’s, 250 and 220’s. Should I re-up ypao in the multiple positions and try again? There was a really big difference in bass response with all things being equal from flat to through.

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    • Hi Jon,

      Yes, re-do YPAO with multiple positions and also turn on “Extra bass” in the settings if bass is still lacking. You can also get bass back with the tone controls. Also if your receiver has YPAO volume, turn it on as it will shape bass and treble according to volume which is what will actually sound flat but full at all volumes.

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  9. I don’t have a camera tripod but I do have a flexible lamp stand that can be easily twisted to the appropriate locations. Would this be okay to tape the YPAO mic to? I have recently acquired an RX-A3060

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    • Yes, Bruce. I think that would be ok as long as it doesn’t have a large hard surface under the mic to obstruct and reflect sound back into the mic.

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    • Hi Roland,

      Thanks regards the mic setup.
      Just completing the wiring and component set up of my system at present. Going with a 7.2.4

      Do I setup my PB16 Ultra after I do the YPAO for the whole system or before?
      The other sub in the system is a 12″ I’ve had for many years and I’m wondering if it will help the overall sound of the system.

      If going dual subs, I understand its best to have matching subs and probably next best with subs of similar capability, but will the introduction of the smaller sub help with any nulls or highs or any other benefits or will it be too difficult to setup?

      Should I get an MiniDSP and REW or something else to get the best integration?

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      • I would recommend a Dirac-enabled MiniDSP or an Audyssey-enabled subwoofer EQ like the SVS AS-EQ1 or the Audyssey sub EQ. The last two options can be had cheap used!

        If you are using the above, you need to set up the yamaha without the subs and then set them up with the EQ in the chain after turning on the subs in the yamaha again.

        If you are using MiniDSP without Dirac, just frequency correction, you should correct the most obvious issues first then let the Yamaha correct the rest in my opinionz

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  10. I’m afraid I’m probably as guilty as your friend. I have tried to run through the YPAO on my CXA5100/MXA5000 setup, but I haven’t found the time to really get into the nitty gritty.
    I think I only did one position too, so I guess I’ll be back to it at next opportunity. I do use an Anti-Mode with my Dali E12F. I have Dali Ikon 5 Mk2 s up front with an Ikon Vokal, Ikon wall mounted surrounds and a pair of Zensor 1s for surround back. I installed 4 JBL 26Cs in the ceiling for the Atmos duty.
    The sound, whilst good, does feel like it should be better for the outlay!
    I did buy a MiniDSP mic, but again I haven’t got into the REW process of measuring and setting equalisers etc.

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    • I’ve gotta be honest. It’s either Dirac or Audyssey for the subwoofer channel if you can swing it. Some of the MiniDSP does Dirac. Audyssey, only SVS or Audyssey but I think their subEQ may no longer be in production so a used unit. I’m using an SVS-AS EQ1 and it makes a huge difference

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  11. Hi, congratulations for l, very good item. I would appreciate it if you could give me some advice. My system consists of a front b & w 683 s2, a central B & w Htm61s2, a 685s2 surround b & w, an atmos on the sofà the B & W m1, the SVS sb2000 subwoofer, the AV YAMAHA 2060, the POWER AMP for the front ROTEL rb1582mk2, all in a 12x13ft room. I’ve made various measurements with ypao, but often the music is more dynamic in pure direct, with flat or natural the music has too high and the image is decentralized. With movies the dynamics and effects are more beautiful with ypao natural. The atmos speaker in any way make ypao sound better in trough, the ypao chart unlike the other speakers have very high gains -8db to +7db, what’s wrong? The subwoofer after the ypao measurement I have to lower it by -2db though it is too loud is annoying, and when I listen to movies in the dolby atmos (Mad Max, Sant Andreas, Transformers etc.) I have to lower the subwoofer’s volume to -5db to avoid the clipper , it’s normal? Also when active in Neaural X I have the impression that they increase the bass of the subwoofer, is it possible? I would like to know about the size of my room what kind of ypao I should do, how many positions, how far the various measurements and how tall. Any advice and opinion to be able to improve will be accepted. thank you

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    • Hi Vincenzo,

      Well, there seem to be a couple of issues. It sounds like the two amps may not be properly volume aligned? Could you please check this? If the surrounds and Atmos speakers have very high gains, you may need to decrease the volume on the other amp.

      Secondly, I would do the measurements again as described in the article.

      Thirdly, YPAO does set the subwoofer a bit too hot so it’s ok to lower the volume by 1-3 dB. Especially with YPAO volume on, it can get a bit boomy. This is why I personally use a separate subwoofer equaliser and properly volume level the sub manually.

      Thirdly, music isn’t really mastered to a specific standard like movies are to so you may have better luck by doing the following: set YPAO to FLAT then set bass and treble to your satisfaction on the input you normally listen music on. You may want to use the iPhone app to control the yamaha. It’s much easier to see what you’re setting etc.

      For music, I also like to use 9 channel stereo setting or the music video DSP.

      Again, since there is no mastering standard for music, you may find you need to adjust things per genre or even per album.

      Like

  12. I like to get your opinion. I have RX-A3070 and ran through the multi-position angle calibration. YPAO decided to set my Polk Audio LSi25, LSi-C, and LSi-FX (Bipole position) to LARGE with Crossover 60hz in the front and 40hz in the rear.

    What I ended up on doing is going back to manual setup, and changed all the speakers to Small. I have my front setup is the LSi25 10″ subs are powered by a 300watt (each side) amp. So I have SW1 and SW2 with layout Left&Right.

    I left the YPAO recomment cross-over frequency. However I feel my bass is a bit weak and center for dialog is a bit low too

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    • It’s not unusual that YPAO does that. It’s ok to set the speakers small and then set the crossover to 80hz as recommended by THX. It makes controlling the bass easier. You CAN turn extra bass feature on to have the bass come from both main and sub. I think you may need to set the main speakers as large for that though.

      In any case, you can increase the bass using the bass trim feature if you require or in manual setup. Same goes for the centre speaker and see how you go.

      If you’re listening at lower volume, have both dynamic DRC and YPAO volume activated for sure. There’s also the dialog level feature to only increase the dialogue and it works with all sources, not just DTS X.

      If you’re still having issues with the bass after this, you can either manually tune the bass PEQ curve or get a sub EQ that will do it automatically for you – something Dirac or Audyssey based.

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  13. Thank you so much for this article and your responses to people, so helpful!
    Question on results, should you adjust distances if they appear off or keep ypao results?

    I have a fairly rectangular room, 10′ wide by 19′ deep; minus irregularities in flatness it is controlled space (I closed off part of a room). I have an rxa3050 in a 7.2.4 configuration using an emotive amp for the rear presence. Seating is a 3 across row of seats with roughly the same space on either side for walking path, so position 1 is near as close to center across as possible.

    After running ypao the fronts and the rear presence come back with different distances for the respective left/right. While there may be sub 1′ distance in my by eye measures it isn’t +3′. Should I be adjusting to (near) equal or keep what ypao comes back with?

    Also can you explain the difference/reasons to go left&bright or monaural x2 on the subs? They are both in front next to left/right.

    Thanks again!

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    • No worries at all, Ken.
      I would keep the distances as YPAO doesn’t only measure the distance from the speaker but delays in applying correction and waves bouncing off walls, etc. this is especially important on the subwoofer as it is actually delaying the sub so the frequencies arrive at the same time as the main speakers and not just the physical distance. It is normally pretty accurate.

      Monoaural versus left and right.
      As you know The sub takes the LFE information (.1) plus any frequencies from all the other speakers below the set crossover point (normally 80hz or whatever you set). If you set them to monoaural, both subs will play the same: all the speaker info below 80hz. If you set them to L and R, they will both play LFE but the L sub will play all low frequencies from the left speakers (front left, surround left, back surround left, etc) and the R sub will play the right speaker information.

      I would try both and see which one you prefer. For mainly movie listening, monoaural is likely better (or back and front). For music, some prefer L and R.

      However, just be mindful that with two subs positioning (or a sophisticated subwoofer EQ) is even more important. Do some research to get the best out of them.

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  14. I have an RX-V483 and haven’t run YPAO yet. I am using a PDR-100, Monitor 7’s for my left and right, Monitor 5’s for the rear, and a CC-350 for center. All are set to small with a Crossover at 60 on the sub and receiver menu. Something sounds off though. Treble is a little high and the bass seems like it doesn’t flow?

    Any ideas?

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    • Yes, try and run YPAO and either use Flat or if there’s still too much treble: Natural!

      If bass is still an issue, you may need to try moving the sub first (read its manual: some subs need to be in corners, others should not be) and if all else fails: a sub EQ.

      Like

  15. Quick question, I appreciated the article by the way. I am coming from a Pioneer 1222-k and am used to MCACC. I would usually run the MCACC once, it would set distance and set my front speakers(Acoustic Research 310HO) to large, I would then save the setting but change the speakers to small, and re-run it(manual config). I just got a TSR 7810, and my question is that after running the multi-seat YPAO, and changing the speakers to small and 80hz, do I have to re-run YPAO again with the speakers at the new setting?

    Like

    • No worries, Owen. No, you don’t need to re-run YPAO with the new settings. In fact you can’t otherwise your manual changes will be gone!

      Like

  16. Looks like a bit of work. Just ordered the RX-A770BL to replace a Marantz SR6003 which went bad on the HDMI. I did the Marantz manually since I did not care for the Audyessy sound. I too have dual SVS subs and all SVS speakers. Am I reading the manual correct when it wants the subs set to half volume and full frequency? I will give the YPAO a swag since it looks like the manual setup for this AVR is quite different than on the Marantz. Thanks for the info quite detailed.

    Like

    • Yes you are reading it right, Joe! Half volume so they have headroom and there’s no risk of overdriving them. If YPAO can’t volume match them, it will say so. 🙂

      Like

    • You can still use the advice to properly position the one seating position you do have. You’ll get better results than just plunking it on the chair or backrest of your sofa.

      Like

  17. Hi Roland,

    Great site and article!! Nice to see some advice for us Yamaha owners. I recently purchased a new RX-V1083 Yamaha receiver and Klipsch speakers and subwoofer (R-10 sw). I followed your instructions and ran multi YPAO. I set my sub volume to half and phase to full and every time it configures my sub to -10db. I have to turn the sub volume down to around 1/3 and re-run YPAO to get the right correction around 0 db. Is this normal or do you have any recommendations? Thanks!

    Like

    • Hi Gary,
      Yes that’s fine. It sounds like your sub has plenty of power for your room and will provide ample headroom for a distortion-free subwoofer channel.
      You can adjust the sub volume to taste using the mobile app once the setup has been done btw. I turn mine up a few dBs from baseline.

      Like

  18. What is the basis for your statement: “…reference level (around -17 volume on Yamaha receivers, 0 volume on THX and Audyssey enabled receivers)”? This would seem a very strange and arbitrary setting for Yamaha to use in its configuration.

    Industry standard seems to be to set 0 to be reference level so that it is easy to determine the precise volume level you are listening at. I cannot find anything in the Yamaha manual that would indicate that the volume for reference is -17. I know that systems like Audyssey uses -30dBfs level test tones to calibrate speaker level settings which should result in 85dB spl at 0 volume.

    Like

    • Hi Greg,
      Based on measurements with a calibrated mic and how compensation is applied.
      THX and Audyssey systems do set the reference level at 0. Yamaha receivers don’t as a consistent standard, no. But let us know how your Yamaha behaves.

      Yamaha’s THX receivers like the Z9 and Z11 did use 0 as reference as far as I recall. Of course Yamaha no longer seeks THX certification even for their top end gear.

      Like

  19. Hi Ronald, Thanks for detailed information.

    I’ve RX-A870 and I wanted to know configuration of setting up speakers.

    My speakers are two NS-777, one center speaker, two monitor speakers.

    I want to setup NS-777 as front speakers with bi-amp configuration and two monitor speaker as rear surround speakers.

    Could you guide me configuration setup please ?

    Like

    • Hi Rahul,

      You will need to set up the fronts with the bi-amp option and connect the rear speakers to the SIDE surround output and not the rear surround output even if they are in the rear if they are the only set of surround speakers.

      If you look in the manual, you should have an option for front bi-amp setting for speaker setup with internal amps for both front and rear.

      Like

  20. “If the crossover set is much higher than you know the speakers can reproduce, you may want to repeat the setup routine“

    How much is much higher? My front speakers are thx satellites mk sound s150 that from 80hz and up and YPAO sets them To 120 I have manually corrected them to 80hz but then read the above in your article

    Like

    • Yeah, it happens that the mic positions are just not getting energy below 120hz, especially if the speakers aren’t pointing directly to the listening positions. You can set them to 80hz if that sounds better but I recon speaker angle may make some difference if you can angle them differently…

      Like

  21. Hi Roland, with an rx-v683 does YPAO remember calibration for different amp configurations, I’d like switch between bi-amp for music and 5.2.2 for movies.

    Like

    • Hi Rothgar,

      If you look in the manual and it says you have two “patterns” available for speaker configuration then you can switch between bi-amp and another config. If it doesn’t have it then not. I haven’t had time to have a peek for you, sorry. But hope this helps to figure it out. 🙂

      Like

  22. Calibrated again, bi-amp first then 5.2.2, recorded the results, seems to just use the last calibration made. So no, don’t think it saves individual results for different amp setups, oh well, maybe on the Aventage series it does.

    Like

    • The advantage series allows you to choose two speaker patterns with different settings for amp assignment etc. are you absolutely sure there isn’t a Speaker a Pattern setting on yours?

      Like

    • If it absolutely doesn’t, one thing to try would be to do the calibration with one pattern, copy the settings into the manual slot, then change pattern, calibrate again. That way you could select the manual calibration when needed. 🙂

      Like

  23. Yeah, no speaker patterns choice on the rx-v683. Hmm, I don’t think that will work, whatever changes you make in manual settings override the auto settings, there is no choice to switch between the two unless you changed all the settings every time one wanted to switch amp configs which would be impractical, and I do need set sub crossovers manually as it just sees all my speakers as large. Thanks for thinking about it though Roland, much appreciated.

    Like

    • Yes, you’re right, you’d have to change other configuration but the calibration wouldn’t have to be re-done so if it’s changing it for movie night once a week, it’s ok. If it’s constant reconfiguration, it’s impractical.

      No worries at all. I’m sorry we couldn’t figure it out for ya.

      Like

  24. Thanks a lot for the great article and further tons of information during your responses to questions. It’s commendable that you take the efforts to reply to every query that comes your way, after publishing this wonderful article. I just bought a A2070 and was kind of blank on what it does differently in various modes. I come from a 2010 Onkyo NR906 that had only Audyssey Multeq but was doing a fantastic job. While was very pleased with ability to switch YPAO modes on the fly while listening, I was neither able to figure out which mode is good for my Room nor decipher differences in each mode. Luckily landed on this page and so happy that I did.
    After all that got mentioned above, now I have questions on YPAO 🙂 I completed YPAO calibration for all 8 positions and also completed 4 position angle and height measurement. I run a 5.2.2 configuration, with my Onkyo powering the Front Speakers as an external amplifier.
    1. All my speakers, including Atmos enabled Klipch front presence speakers and KEF Surround speakers were configured as large, that I find very intriguing. Though I have manually corrected all of the speakers to Small with appropriate crossovers, still wondering why would YPAO configure Surround and Presence speakers as Large?
    2. After the calibration, like I was doing with my Onkyo, I measured SPL levels for all speakers to balance them and to my astonishment, the SPL meter was not even registering the test tone even at the lowest setting possible (55 db). I was always setting the SPL levels for all the speakers to 75 db level and I was able to do that on A2070 as well with the previous 3 Position calibration attempt. Any reason you can think of for this?

    3. However, when playing the movies, I was again surprised that even with volume at -15, the perceived loudness is very close to what I was used to from my Onkyo, that was set for SPL level of 75 db. You mentioned above in one of the responses that Yamaha hits the Reference level at volume level of -17. What I am not able to understand is, with SPL reading below 55 db, how am I hitting reference level while listening at -15 volume level?

    Thanks in advance for any insights into the above issues.

    Like

    • Hi VS,
      Thank you for your kind words. I’m happy to help if I can. It’s great to share the hobby you love with others.

      I’ve got to say I have come to accept that YPAO makes some strange decisions with crossover at times. It’s got to do with what it can actually measure at the listening positions. I have bookshelves with a port hole at the back that can go down quite low when placed near a wall due to boundary gain for the lower octaves but don’t measure so low when not close to the wall or higher up on the wall. Of course those lower octaves aren’t that cleanly reproduced so I normally cut them with an 80hz crossover.

      The same goes for my THX speakers. They can do down to around 60hz well but I set them at 80hz.

      The second part of this equation is to do with the subwoofer. If the Yamaha is not “hearing” the lower octaves properly between 40hz and 80hz, it may set some the speakers large to try and compensate.

      Mmm, I don’t know what was going on with your SPL meter or how you were producing the test tone. You may need to switch the mode / weighting on your meter possibly?

      Yes, correct. The Yamaha produces the correct volume at -17 to -15. It’s again one of those strange things Yamaha landed on. I’m not sure why.

      Like

  25. I cannot understand why ypao set my sub level to +1db.The bass is loud enough but seems strange that it goes to +db I have the sub gain knob set to 12 o’clock .
    On my previous pioneer receiver when set to 10 o’clock that set level to -10db.
    the sub is a mksound x10 with plenty of power.

    Like

    • +1dB is fine. Dependent on the EQ you apply, you would set different gain so even during multiple runs you can get variation as the system tries to figure out the best balance. The question is whether it sounds good!
      I set my subwoofer to +3 because I like more low end. 😉

      Like

  26. Thanks for the great info Roland. I have looked all over the web for some info and nothing comes close to the great knowledge you have shared on the Yamaha. I just had a new system installed and have been a bit confused by the set up. I have a basic 5.1 set up-all ceiling speakers, 3 B&W ccm cinema 7’s in front and 2 B&W 683’s as surrounds, 2 ML Dynamo 1000 subs up front and a Yamaha RX 2070 amp. I will run the multi point after reading your article but should I run the height/angle too being that they are all ceiling speakers? I ran the single point YPAO initially and the results show all distances to speakers differently even though they are at equal distances from the listening position, also all the speaker and sub decibels are set differently, should I change them manually or leave them as set by YPAO? I don’t know if this is has anything to do with the YPAO settings too but sub 2 always makes a popping sound and goes into standby mode, the subs then don’t wake up until they get a heavy bass signal. The other thing that confuses me is the large or small speaker configuration, everything online says set speakers to small otherwise they could be damaged but this set up has them set as large, will it be safe to run them this way? Thanks for your much appreciated help!

    Like

    • Hi Pete,
      Yes, definitely run multi-point and angle measurement. Distances will be more accurate! Don’t change them manually as they are a time-alignment more than distance based, especially for the subs! There is mostly correlation with distance but depends on reflection / when primary wave arrives.

      I would also switch power saving off on your subs while you are calibrating if you can… the issue seems more like your subs than the Yamaha in this case. I have power saving on my sub and it does make a little popping sound when it comes on initially but it will stay on for the duration of a movie even without much bass content.

      It is safe to leave speakers as large but dependent on the speakers and sub, raising the crossover to 80hz might be a good idea. Never lower crossover however. If the crossover is too high, angle speakers properly towards listening position or change location of speaker slightly and re-run.

      Like

  27. Haha, Roland, sorted it, I peq calibrated just the 5.2 bi-amp setup, because calibration settings are totally bypassed when playing in Atmos or DTS-X, on this model at least, and I only use those speakers when using Atmos/DTS-X. Problem solved.

    Like

  28. I am trying to calibrate without subwoofer because I have bought an antimode, but since my speakers a sattelite mksound s150 series that requires a subwoofer. The YPAO gets everything wrong. Distance is way off as in bonkers wrong. so for now I run with the through setting

    Like

  29. Hello

    Do you Know if Audyssey subeq can be used without Audyssey licence, like Svs as-eq1 ? The unit is the same.
    I want upgrade my rx-a3030 equ capability.
    But i don’t own Audyssey Licence.

    Thanks in advance

    Like

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